In a scrum outside the House of Commons today, NDP MP Pat Martin said that the terms of the reference for the Mulroney inquiry ought to be broad enough that the inquiry can take a look at donations Karl Heinz Schreiber made to Liberals as well as Conservatives — at the kind of lobbying “that makes Canadians puke,” to use his phrase . Here’s an excerpt from that scrum, in which Martin responds to questions from several different reporters:
Pat Martin: … if the allegations are that they're greasing the wheels of commerce by lining the Conservative pockets, we started to think isn't it just as likely that an operator like Mr. Schreiber would be greasing the wheels of commerce with Liberals as well? And we did find evidence that Bearhead Industries, Mr. Schreiber's company, donated $10,000 in 1993 to the Liberal Party of Canada.
But we also raised the question in Question Period today: what motivates Marc Lalonde to contribute to the million-dollar bail for Karlheinz Schreiber? It's just a question that comes to mind. We make no allegations. We're just saying that this is something that a public inquiry should be broad enough to, as Mr. Gomery says, follow the money. Mr. Gomery said today that one of the limitations that he regretted about his own inquiry is that the terms of reference didn't allow him to follow the money to the extent that he thought would have been useful.
Reporter: I'm not sure I understand what you're referring. Is it illegal to make a donation to the Liberal Party?
Martin: No, absolutely not. All we're talking about now is the terms of reference of the public inquiry and it's reasonable to assume the possibility that maybe Mr. Schreiber was greasing other wheels than just Conservative.
Reporter: You're saying that Schreiber wanted to set up a light armoured vehicle plant in Bearhead, Cape Breton and so you're thinking that maybe a $10,000 contribution to the incoming Liberal government might grease the wheels. Is that what you're suggesting?
Martin: Well, 1993 was an election year and, you know, Mr. Schreiber was trying to influence public policy decision-making. Who's to say that he wasn't trying to influence the Liberal government as well whether they're incoming or outgoing? All we're saying is the terms of reference of the public inquiry has to be broad enough to allow them to follow the money even if that leads to places other than the Conservative Party.
Reporter: Isn't this inquiry supposed to be about Mr. Mulroney and his dealings with Mr. Schreiber and the $300,000 and Harrington Lake and not all Mr. Schreiber's business dealings over 20 years in Canada?
Martin: Well, the Airbus defamation libel suit is pluralistic by its very nature. I can't say how far they have to go but Canadians want to know and so if we are at the stage where we're trying to define the terms of reference of the public inquiry, what the NDP is saying is that we want it to be broad and expansive enough to include these other logical questions that follow.
Reporter: So the link between Mr. Schreiber and the Tories and the link between Mr. Schreiber and the Liberals.
Martin: And the Liberals. Exactly. I mean this whole sordid mess. I don't think it's limited to the Conservative Party in my own opinion.
Reporter: But how wide does the inquiry have to be to look into every political donation which was completely legal at the time?
Martin: Well, common sense and reason will have to prevail but the public has a right to know. The public needs to know and I argue the public needs to know before they can go to the ballot box again, to tell you the truth.
Reporter: Mr. Schreiber says in his affidavit that he was assured by Brian Mulroney would win the '93 election. Did he give money to the Conservatives?
Martin: We don't know. We haven't found any evidence of donations to the Conservative Party of Canada. What we do know is he gave envelopes full of money to the former Prime Minister of Canada.
Reporter: And now your thesis is that Mr. Schreiber might have tried to bribe any government that was in Ottawa.
Martin: Well, I think if, as the allegations suggest, Mr. Schreiber was trying to grease the wheels of commerce, as we say, that it may well be he was greasing the wheels of any leader, government ruling party or the opposition party or the party that may become the next government.
Reporter: What does it say about Bearhead and the way they're conducting operations?
Martin: Well, this is the kind of lobbying that makes Canadians puke. You know this is exactly the reason why we're trying to tie a bell around lobbyists' necks so they aren't out there peddling influence and buying government favour. I mean that old-school politics that this indicates is exactly why we want to change things.
Reporter: You weren't around at the time and it's a different way of doing business now, right?
Martin: I'm not sure it's changed that much. I mean look around you now. You can't swing a cat on Parliament Hill without hitting a lobbyist. You know I don't know what they're up to but I do know there's very little rules that stop them from influence peddling. They say the only difference between influence peddling and lobbying is about five years in prison but it's a fine line.